Arundell Overman – The Magick of Al Ghoul

it’s an absolute pleasure to have you here on the cult of you. Thank you, sir, for taking the time to chat to us today. For those of you that are not familiar, we have a genius mind here with an absolute dedication to this craft and the development of the community. Author of over 15 books already and now, with five more under the belt, that’s on the way out, is that correct?

Yes, sir. Thanks for having me.

It’s an absolute honor and a pleasure and a gift. I have so many different interesting questions from subscribers to the show that are also, I believe, long term fans of yours. But before we kind of get into those questions, I’d like to open our conversation with if you have a little bit of a kind of a journey, you know, what is it that is kind of led you on this path?

I mean, a lot of practitioners and people that we spoke to or that have spoken to and that I’ve met in my life, some have come across it by accident, some have come across it by, you know, the curse of God, so to speak. And there’s some of us that just cannot be pulled away from this path.

Some it’s been a ritual experience, a mystical experience. What has been your journey that’s really led you to a place where you are now, where it’s not just an intellectual fascination. It is a true way of life. And there’s a fundamental way of thinking. What was some of the core path or points that led you on to that?

Well, I’ll say there was about three different turning points. The first turning point was there was a man who came to my parents church and he said, what we perceive of as solid physical reality is actually spiritual mass. That’s in a very slow vibration. And at that point, I kind of grasped that the spiritual world and the physical world are the same thing, that existing and different rates of vibration.

So it’s kind of like a light bulb went off in my head. And I wanted to know more about what was called the New Age movement. And then I went on a trip with that guy, and we started doing some silence of the mind meditation where you just clear your mind. It was real simple. And when I got back, I was sitting on the couch or laying on the couch, and I just had a spontaneous out-of-body experience.

I found myself floating up above my body and, everything was made out of light, and I could see millions of individual particles so that everything was glowing. And I passed through a wall, and I was floating under a light bulb. And, so that kind of showed me that the astral projection world was real. And then the next big turning point in my life was I met the spirit as my day.

And to kind of give you a little bit about that, I had stumbled across a book called Modern Magic. You may have heard of it. Donald Michael Craig and, yeah, a couple of spirits in there. You know, the sigils from the coalition. It mentioned that there was this book called the Galatia. And so I ordered the delegation and came to my, house, was living with my girlfriend, and she brought it down to where I was at work at the time.

And I opened it, and I looked at it and I saw, you know, I had some strange diagrams in it, but couldn’t really tell much about it because I was on break. So a couple of days later, she was gone from the house and I was all alone, and my plan was to study some magic for the day.

And I went in this room that was my temple area and was a completely bare room, and a copy of the collection was laying on the floor. And, I kind of, in my mind kind of wandered, you know, and I went over this a million times in my head, trying to analyze it from every different angle. What happened next?

But I saw a cloud of red energy coming out of the book. Kind of like a teardrop shape, you know, like you might you might imagine a genie coming out of the lamp. It was really like that, and it was red and it was glistening and it was sparkling. And I looked at it and I was just like, wow, what is that?

You know? And I could see that it went down to the book and it just kind of came up like a cloud coming out of that book. And I looked at it for some time, maybe, perhaps a minute of time. And then I heard an audible voice and it said and said, stand back in the room and I will manifest before you.

And so I knew that something was about to happen, but I didn’t know what. So I kind of took a step back in the room, and the cloud just kind of opened up like, you know, exploded outwards like that. And there he was. And he had three heads, one was a man, one was around and one was a cool.

And down below him was a dragon about the size of an alligator. And, the man had had hair just sticking out like crazy all over everywhere. And his face was real. It was kind of thinner than mine, and it was real intense. He was looking right at me, and this was not like it wasn’t like a shadow, you know?

Go still perfectly clear. You can. I could see the individual teeth in his mouth and the individual strands of hair, and the bull head was to the side of him, and just seemed to stare off out into space, and Ram head was looking out this way. And, I was looking at this thing, and I was just like, what?

Roland, I see. And I had no idea, but I never heard of Thousand Day in my life. I had no idea that there could be such a thing as a three headed creature that rode a hunting dragon. You know, and he says, pick up the book. And, so I, you know, kind of knelt down, but I didn’t take my eyes off of him because I was afraid I’d lose what I was seeing.

It was the most incredible thing I’d ever seen in my life. I wasn’t really scared. I kind of described it like looking at the Grand Canyon or something of that all inspiring, you know? And, so I was holding the book and he said, open the book, and he’s just looking at me and his face is, you know, he’s moving.

It’s not like a still image or anything like that. And so I opened the book and I’m just probably my mouth is probably hanging open, drool running out, and he says, look down. So I looked down and there it says, the 32nd spirit is housed one day. And he said, this one’s got three heads. One’s a man, one’s around, one’s for a bull, and his rawhide ride is on an infernal dragon.

You know, it’s got that medieval talk. And so in that moment, I knew that what I was looking at there in front of me was a spirit out of that book. And then I was he caused me to open the book somehow, right to the page that he was on is the only spirit that has that exact form, those three specific heads and rides on that dragon.

And, but, all this time and probably at least a minute or two has passed. Well, I’m just standing there looking at it, and it was a very long experience. It wasn’t like, you know, 10s or just a flash. What am I seeing? There it is. And it’s gone, you know. And so I said to him, I said, what are you you know, just who are you?

How can you exist? I don’t remember my exact words. And then the next thing that happened, I tried to remember it a million times, and I don’t know exactly what happened next. My girlfriend at the time has told me that she came home and I was still seeing him, and I was like, he’s right there. You can see him, you know, still talking to him.

But I personally don’t remember him leaving. So I really couldn’t tell you exactly how he laughed or how the experience ended. But that was how I met Asmodeus day, and it just completely split my life in half, you know?

And this was a completely spontaneous experience. You weren’t practicing vocational magic of the guy at that point. You pretty much entered this, ordered the book and the spontaneous manifest station started. The relationship began like that?

Yeah, absolutely. I had no idea of as in one day, now I think I may have tried the ritual out of modern magic for how to invoke that. Well, you know, but it totally wasn’t really related. It was more like a help bridge type deal, you know, and, paper sigil around my neck and I may have tried one evocation, but I had not, read the code itself because I just got it in the mail, and it was my day off, and I was kind of look through it that day, you know?

But, yeah, I had no idea it.

Was psychological primer. There was no pre psychology of what it should look like, what it should be. So this wasn’t really like a self-hypnosis thing at all. This was a complete spontaneous manifestation. And contact with the entity. Is that thing how the relation. I’m kind of like jumping into the question because you did say that there’s three, but, is that how the relationship it began?

Was it completely one guided through as my day?

Yeah. Somehow he opened my third eye. You know, I’m not sure exactly how he did it. But that was my first meeting with him, and I had absolutely no, I had no idea of who he was or his form. I’d never heard about him and read about him, and he just came out of the book like a genie out of a lamp.

And, appeared to me right there, and and, you know, that’s how it went down. And so after that, I started reading the going to start building all the tools and just, I mean, there were times when I worked from 4 to 8 hours a day on magic for years of my life, because of seeing him, it was so incredible that it just pushed me to read and study in ways that I think most people wouldn’t.

Naturally maintain that that profound experience. I think that’s a it’s a very definite form of evidence of contact that’s outside of normal kind of psychological processes. But leading up to that, you mentioned that you did the stillness work in the meditative work which led to, out of body or astral state experience? Were you before that practicing any other things like dance, yoga, tantra, things like that, to really enhance the energetic body?

Or did this really only kind of develop after that? Because I do understand that in the I’ll Google Cambodian, there’s there’s a lot of tantric and yogic techniques and breathing techniques that you do teach in those systems. Was this something that came after the contact with us, or was this was there already some of this in place beforehand?

The only magic that I had done before I met him was, out of modern magic, basically Golden Dawn based, the lesser banishing ritual, the pentagram banishing ritual, the hexagram, middle pillar, and silence of the mind meditation, and maybe a little bit of stretches. I was only 21 at the time. No, I think I was only 19 at the time, so I really hadn’t even done any major yoga or anything like that.

Probably read four books on magic, like, beginners, Wicca, you know, stuff like that. I remember, but that was it really, just didn’t know much, you know.

This was a period of time and I think, you know, God rest, martial soul, he was he was an entry point, I think, for a lot of people, modern magic was such a digest piece of material, even modern sex magic. And I believe his final book, Modern Tantra, very well researched, very well read.

You know, for the time period and I think it opened up for a lot of magicians and a lot of people, you know, forget that we do owe the man quite a bit of credit for his efforts, you know, in the industry. So I, I feel the same. I also had some of my earliest experiences and journeys in that and used to teach those techniques for years, because they did have foundations.

But I think the magician that practices you break past those frameworks and you move into a different sphere when that direct relationship starts to to come about. And that should ultimately be the goal that the I think the systems become useful crutches. They should never become crutches. They should never kind of stay in that. But there’s a lot more that I want to speak to you about that.

And I think we’ll get into that. There’s this classic three tiers of initiation the the outer guide, the inner transmutation, and the final contact with the main guide. Then the Asimo de how did that relationship develop where you did it? Did he come and visit you? Did he initiate the rest of the work, or did you initiate the rest of the work through the practices inside of the coach at the time?

Because this was classic syllabic approaches at that period, as I understand it, right.

At that time, that was before the internet, you got to realize that was like 26 years ago. And so all I had was to go Asia and I didn’t know a single other person on the planet who knew about the code or anything like that. So I spent the next 20 years work in magic from a more traditional perspective.

Like, I went through all the greats of the Golden Dawn, built the vaults of the adept II, and then, of course, I built all the equipment from the which in its traditional form, like. And I was, using the names of God and the angels and, hazel wand and the metal seals, you know, and all that type stuff to bind the spirits.

And then about five years ago, I started writing Libra Asmodeus. And it was a different book at the time, which was just kind of be a compendium of different magic that I learned. And then one day I was just there at the house and I heard the words, that said the demon Asmodeus, which is the first words in the book.

And I wrote that down. And then it just started going from there. And sometimes he will appear to me, and sometimes I invoked in, the longest that I saw him, since the original encounter, which the original encounter, I would say, had to be at least two, three, five minutes long was a very long experience. You know, where you’re seeing him on that level, where you can see the individual teeth in his mouth and the hairs on his head, you know, and I think that seeing a spirit on that level is very difficult for the human consciousness to, maintain for a very long period of time.

And the longest that I’d seen him was, after that was probably 15 years later, me and a friend were working in the traditional Make-A-Wish set up, and we had prepared for it very extensively. We had all of the tools. I had been celibate for some time. I believe it was five days. I had also fasted 24 hours prior to the invocation, and we were doing at least 3 to 4 full hour long evocations and the traditional equipment, a week.

So we were working very hard, had a tremendous amount of power built up. And then there was a time where I probably saw him for, I would estimate like up to 14 seconds solid, you know, it’s like in the clear, you’re difficult to, to get that kind of contact where you can see one that clearly and then also to maintain it.

Usually what I found was like if we were doing really heavy evocation, you’d be conjuring and you’d see something like a shadow there or a shape, and then a part of it might come into physical. You know. Oh my God, there it is. It’s a warrior on a griffon. And then you can only get like 2 or 3 seconds before it fades.

And then you might be able to hear auditory sensations or receive telepathic communication after that. But holding that crystal clear, you can see down the hairs of its head for a very long period. Like as when I mean long, I mean five to 10s is very difficult to use. And and it depends on, it depends on your preparation, how, sure your body is and your mind is what kind of control you have over your addictions, how celibate you are.

I have found that, I mean, to put it bluntly, especially for men, how much semen you have in your body is how clearly you’re going to be able to see spirits. And also, fasting is another key. There’s a reason why. There’s a reason why all those old books hammer the same keys and those in your crank, or more Croatia, grandma, Pope Honorius, all of the old Mars, bar none, come down to these points.

You’re going to have to pray and confess your sins, which we might look at as meditation. And you’re going to have to go celibate, and you’re going to have to control your diet or fat in one way or the other, you know, and the different books have different regiments, like, the grand or more as a period of seven days where you’re only supposed to eat twice a day and that’s supposed to be 12 hours apart, and that’s to clear out your stomach and, you know, prepare you for the evocation.

So if you want to see them on that level to where you’re like, oh my God, you’ve got to use those keys. And I preach those all the time. Whether you’re writing them path or left hand path, because.

It’s a fun to go ahead. It’s one of those core ideas, again in magic that that’s oftentimes overlooked. You get a lot of the younger practitioners. That’s almost they look at the spell book, so they look at the grim, more like if they’re just these little, you know, quick fix recipes, I can just say these things in the sequence and I’m going to have success, forgetting that there is a completely different components of it.

There’s a classic development of the will and the imagination. In a recent discussion that I had with, you know, Petrocelli that went through his journey with mental health. And one of the key concepts he also spoke about was, the development of the, well, giving up sex, for example, for a period of time, giving up food. And this training of the will both trains the mind.

But again, as you point out very clearly the the extra semen in the body is this almost this alchemical substance of manifestation. And either we’re wasting it, we’re leaking it, or we’re alchemy transmuting it by purifying that energy that increases the psychic force that is again, available. I think that is some of the more core ideas. I remember when early parts of my journey, my first encounter was with Beelzebub and the manifest passion was intense and then almost gone for years afterwards with no direct contact.

And only after my progression through a number of stages, he returned to me in ceremony, and I realized that he’s he was always there in the background. They always guided a lot of the progression, things that I wasn’t ready for, but I almost had to psychically prepare myself both mentally and energetically in my body, learning to overcome my addictions, learning to overcome my weaknesses so that I would have a greater reservoir of energy available in order to act as a manifestation base to help that facilitation inside of the process, you raise a very interesting point.

There’s a big debate in the in the left hand path communities about the salami kind of approach to the go ethic spirits. Some are completely anti the binding, the use of the angels. There’s the stories about if you do use it, they’re going to punish kind of a thing. You successfully use those practices of those practices initially from not really right time, but what many would call a right hand approach, which is that traditional abra kind of approach.

And only recently you sit in last five years, moved into a more left hand direct kind of axis. How how would you describe that? Is it really a case of you should not use the slamming methods? They have negative results. Is the direct contact bitter? What is your current mindset around approaching specifically the spirits of the Galicia and working with them to a point of manifestation?

Well, that’s kind of a tricky question, and it can be looked at on a couple of different levels. The Galicia itself doesn’t really involve Christianity. Obviously. The book is pretending at least to be from Solomon, so you won’t find any mentions of Jesus or anything like that in the issue. Some of your other grimoires do like, you know, the Grande Grimoire or whatever.

There have elements of Christianity in them. But at least for me, which was coming to the Galicia, there wasn’t any Christianity, but there was at least Yahweh and the angels and stuff like that. I, I kind of put this my perspective on it at that point was just that when I first came into it, I believe that Solomon wrote the book, you know, whereas now I know that that’s not true.

And it was just so awe inspiring. You know, I think that it boils down to your heart, and, the spirits will know your intentions and if you call them through the Solomonic method, but you’re respectful to them, the book has some clues in it that it will say things like, you know, after you invoke this great king and you bind it by this and this, you must treat it with great respect and offer it incense and stuff like that.

So it it does kind of have a mixed, perspective on it that you are treating these beings with great respect. And I think that eventually a galactic worker will come to the point where they will realize that nobody likes to do something for nothing. So even if you are invoking them with the names of angels or Yahweh, you’re going to have to make offerings to them.

And the book does mention that if you look at Belial that says you need to make an offering to be loyal and treat him as a great king. And there’s several others. So I think that if someone came through it, with the Solomonic approach, they would be okay if they truly had a heart for the spirits.

Now, I think if you look at yourself as an that you are mighty and exalted above these beings, and you’re going to go to ordering them around sooner or later, you may end up having some problems with that. Personally, I always love to ask my day. From the moment I saw him, I was just like, wow, this is the coolest thing I could possibly ever imagine.

And so, my heart was always with the spirits, you know? And that’s about the only thing that I could say for it. And in modern times, I think, you know, in the past five years, I’ve loved Christianity in the sense that I can’t I just don’t feel that it’s right for me to connect to it, you know?

I mean, I just don’t feel, connected to Christianity. And it has since disappeared already. Issues. It looks down on other religions. It thinks that it’s the best, and it thinks that all pagan gods are demons. Whereas for myself, I mean the pagan gods. Those are my friends, you know? So that’s. I imagine you probably see it in a similar perspective.

I see Kali there behind it.

Yes. Yes, I think it’s a perspective that, that, that we deeply do share. I also find that, again, the framework is, is very much related to the the perspective and the emotional psychological development of the of the witch, so to speak. How do we relate to those journeys at a time period? I found that excessive of ritual and ceremony was a serious requirement.

And I think in the beginning, it is a necessary step. It helps the development of the psyche, it helps developing the ceramics until a stronger relationship is established. And then once that initial relationships establish a different attunement, kind of comes into, which I guess is very much the same as somebody was born with a bloodline that’s connected to jinn magic versus somebody that comes from a completely foreign place, announces to adopt that they may need to adopt some kind of framework at first.

And then again, the attitude and the relationship is dynamic. But this is, I think, where a lot of practitioners confuse a lot of the psychology a lot of people seem to take when we say, there’s this, we’re all one and spirits one thing, we’re often saying that that’s true at a quantum fundamental level of reality. We’re not saying that’s true.

The personality level, you know, just because we may be connected and made from the same fundamental substances as the universe, that doesn’t mean we’re the same thing. You know, it’s the same way when somebody takes a massive dose of psilocybin mushrooms, you’re very quickly going to realize that even though that thing is in your body, you don’t have control over it initially, until you’ve kind of developed that work to that point.

And so systematic exposure to the force, but also reverence and respect to this force you are unlocking and you are opening a door. And I don’t necessarily think it may be wise for a beginner, especially someone that hasn’t done the work, they haven’t done some of the ground work, they haven’t looked at their psychology, they haven’t overcome some of their addictions to imagine themselves being successful, you know, in the practice immediately that false narratives, those mixed religious narratives that are still in the brain, may be the biggest thing that’s sabotaging their magic.

And the results it’s inside of that. You have you’ve cultivated over the years quite a bit of a more sophisticated system in some of your practice. Things that are taught me, I’ll go method, that involve a lot of energetic work, psychological work, and as well as practice. How would you say has your own personal practice, kind of evolved since that more organized period, more remote, traditional ceremonial magic period into today in your current, more left hand like approach in relationship to the spirits.

What does that look like for you at the moment?

Well, I still do like using the circle triangle from the collection, but I don’t use the angels or the names of God. I’m going to have a tendency to rely on the boneless ritual. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. I invoke the barn, the swan behind the power bar. But I see that as what we might call Baphomet, which is just the universe, the all.

It’s it’s plugging into that electrical power. The born. This one is definitely not Yahweh. But, you know, a wand and and a circle and a triangle and a set of conjugations and something to offer. The spirit is my prayer primary tools. But I also find that, stretching the body through yoga and Toltec body movements and breath control, greatly increases it.

And if you’re going to go into heavy evocation, you want to have three days celibate and the final day fast. That’s what I do when I’m really getting serious.

Do you think that is mostly. There’s a couple of reasons why. I think because I also believe in the power of fasting. The power of transmutation of sexual energy, the avoidance of orgasm. I will sometimes referred to the utilization of sexual energy without orgasm, but then simply taking the or the sexual energy and using, for example, the Daoist yogic system, or some tantric systems in order to transmute that energy so that it’s cultivated, but it’s never released and it’s purified, to a point and then going through a complete celibate period with that.

So I’ve got the base primed along with the eating technique. Do you think it is predominantly a chemical based thing that’s happening inside of the body? I mean, there’s a lot of philosophies in in the Bulma MAGA traditions, and there’s tantric kind of views that the colors kind of get stimulated as a result of this energetic transmutation, which has an effect on the biochemistry.

We know there is biochemical changes in the body, from the cleaning out of the stomach to the releasing of growth hormone, which are benefits of getting a fasting, extensive fasting. Are these the dominant factors that lead to the success and the alteration of consciousness in your thoughts or experience? Or is it more the act of will, of overcoming the natural slavery?

You know that the system has to these things?

In both of the things that you mentioned, I think that it is, denying your your wants has a tendency to increase your willpower. And then, of course, you do have biological, you know, chemical release and things like that. I mean, when you’re, when your blood is involved in digestion, cancer of the brain as well. So your thoughts aren’t going to focus as clearly and all that.

But there’s also the, the magical component of it, the energetic component that the rays of your astral body are strengthened. And then that’s where the real power comes in when it comes to evoking.

Now, you you’ve done a massive, stretch of research over the years from, traditional western eastern traditions. Looking at systems like the Golden Dawn, practicing throughout the systems in the classic days, all the way into the, the darker aspects of the path. So inside of this kind of global framework, of experiences, do you have a specific, belief or correspondence that you found with the go eesha and the spirits of the geisha in relationship to, for example, the tree of life, the runes systems like that, or yogic systems or astrological systems.

How do you personally map them? Are they independent completely, or do they serve a direct relationship to any of these systems?

Well, I’m not really crazy about the Tree of Life myself. I mean, I learned the tree of life so well in the Golden Dawn, it was outrageous. They got a million different correspondences, and at one point, I could tell you, I probably still could tell you a name of God and a name of an angel. A choir of angels of color.

A tarot card with every single path, all the Hebrew letters. And they just went on and on.

And, personally, I’m just, I don’t I don’t use the tree of life and my current magic, I would be much more inclined to deal with the chakra system, because I just feel like it’s more pagan. And, you know, I use that. I don’t really align the going to the zodiac. They are planetary aligned and showing that you can do X and kings and stuff like that and alignment to the seven planets, but I don’t think that the 72 and the going shows any particular number or that it really, truly does, you know, line up to the zodiacal ring as they, as they talk.

I think that it was from my research. It is based off of, the head Tamron, which is an early grimoire, and it was based off of a book called, The Discovery of Witchcraft, which had a demon list in it that was drawn from the Demonologist, virus. But we we think that the can we should selfless contemporary of witchcraft rather than the demonologist virus because, the demonologist virus had the spirit proofs loss or proof loss in his list, and that one was dropped from the discovery of witchcraft.

And it was also dropped from the collection. And that’s why historians feel like that. It was composed from the discovery of witchcraft rather than the actual work suppliers. So there was 69 spirits, and then they added a couple to bring it up to 72. Why they did that? I think it was probably just a good number to round off to.

But once again, I don’t particularly think that the spirits are, aligned with the holy shaman angels. And I think that’s just something that people did later on, you know, and, yeah, I just I think they’re just a random bunch of spirits and they’re, they’re from all sorts of different places. I mean, you got as somebody who comes from, that ancient person was Asian data, the demon of wrath and Zoroastrianism, and then you got spirits, like in a serious.

And it was that three headed dog Cerberus. A if I’m saying that right, pronounce that right. Kerberos. In the Greek mythology, security had a dog from, you know, the underworld. So you’ve got spirits and then you got Astaroth or which was Sarte, which was from the Canaanite pantheon, and then you got just a whole mixed match of spirits from all over the place, you know.

And those spirits are in thousands of different grimoires. A lot of people don’t realize how many grandpas there are. But lately, I especially, I’ve been gone through these manuscript scans of the various libraries and stuff. And, man, it’s just it’s amazing. There’s hundreds of thousands works just on legend of the House itself. So, yeah, there’s there’s thousands of bars, I think, and goes to spirit time, you know.

So I think this is one of the key things that that’s being opened up. And it’s something people are only looking at now because let’s face it, historically, a lot of people would look at especially practitioners that are coming into the craft. They get the short, little quick description that’s in the old classic interpretations and that’s it. And they kind of use that small little.

It’s like a power animal trip in a video game. You know, X looks like Y and can do this and the other. And this is how many practitioners approach that, or especially beginner practitioners. And it’s not an adequate thing because I don’t think a relationship is really being established and they’re missing all the qualities of the relationship that kind of gets cultivated.

When we take on the attitude of recognizing the myths. Most of these were ancient gods, or they were, you know, very strong powers, very strong forces were very rich hierarchies and histories behind them. I mean, there’s old texts that connect them to two star positions, but then there’s complete myths and history behind them. And we talk about Astaroth, which again, was a start in the beginning, and a practitioner that doesn’t do the historical work doesn’t do their own risk, I think is missing out on a lot of really rich history, in fact, each of them almost opening up their own path or their own set of possibilities and traditions to learn from and grow from

and discover as a system. And I like this notion that says that in a way, if somebody utilizes the shame on me first. I’ve seen, systems even in the Dragon Ruins, where because again, the runes, it was a trinity. It was a triple system. So the runes, the runes being combined, by three gives you 72 and there’s links mapping those together.

These are.

These are useful.

Systems for a person’s own paradigm and own personal organization as a monarch, you know, as a memory system or a personal organization system. But I think using them as doctrine is where it becomes dangerous and almost where we where we limit ourselves, you know, we we stop ourselves from really opening up to the possibility of what the spirit is going to bring us and what new research can bring us because we’re so committed, you know, to a certain way of what it should be, when there’s not really that much publication material, you know, that’s inside of the piece, you know, and I remember recently, you you’re starting work on one of your next

pieces around, circles and power circles. I believe that you did some posts about recently, and you were commenting about some of the research that you brought up with the look of the classic interpretations of fast and the work and the book of fast and the story of fast. And I know there’s there’s varied points of view as well, around the same text where people take the front one, the one that’s the most published, and they don’t necessarily consider the interpretations, the original pieces where that kind of gets its read from.

And instead they just kind of look at it. Now, one of the kind of paradigms that I see very systematic of this in the occult world today is there’s books out there kind of being published today that says you don’t need any of the rituals, you don’t need the sigils, you just need this path working. And then there’s others that says, no, no, no, you don’t.

You don’t need the path working. You just need the end. I believe there was a comment on a forum that you, you gave feedback on as well and pointed out so very rightly that outside of Connolly’s work, there’s very limited reference. You know, if any, about the reach of the end. Is that correct?

There isn’t any at all. I originally from her.

And I’m not saying that to.

Be negative towards her. I have respect for her as a magician, and I personally like Hans, and I’ve had some good experiences with them. But I’m not going to try to pull your leg and say that their action,

And I think that’s a, that’s a key kind of idea here. So what? Based upon your research, based on your discovery, in your work currently, where it is today, how would you recommend someone go about doing that relationship building with these spirits? Let’s just say they don’t have the benefit, as some of us have had, that have had direct contact or direct relationship, or the many years of practice or experience.

They’re fairly fresh to the craft. They’ve maybe, maybe come from a personal development background. In other words, they’ve done some work on themselves. They’re starting to recognize, oh, I need to also take responsibility for my own energy system, cultivate my well, cultivate my imagination, look at getting the base stuff down. They want to enter this practice. They want to establish a relationship.

Where should someone like that start? Are there any of your own materials that you would recommend, maybe as a bit of a syllabus? And if they maybe don’t have access to that, what are the things that they should keep in mind when doing this approach to both guard themselves from danger as well as kind of lead them on the right path and not down an endless rabbit hole of false ideas that don’t necessarily give results.

Well, first of all, you need to get the grimoires themselves and read them as a base of knowledge instead of starting from someone that’s a moderate author, you know? And then if you want to look to modern authors for that, that’s cool. But I hear people that say, how can I invoke Bell? And they never even read The Shadow, which just kind of makes me laugh.

First of all, get the book itself and read it at least ten times. If you want to be serious and you want to think that you’re going to, evoke one of these spirits, sit down and read the book ten times. I mean, I’ve read it 100 times. So, you know, reading it ten times is nothing. And then after that, you probably want to make a decision as to whether you want to work at traditionally.

And if you work at traditionally, you’re going to have an incredible experience. And I personally won’t, discourage someone from working at traditionally just because that’s the most powerful way other than the way that I know. And, and I would recommend either of those ways, and they’ll both lead you to the same experience in the end, which is a direct face to face experience with the spirit.

But they kind of do so by different methods. The traditional method is very involved in putting power into various tools, such as your Hazel one and your elaborate circle. And, you know, incense is very difficult to make. Lignin alloys, which are very hard to get. You’ve got to go a month celibate to be able to make the brass tassel.

And if you carry out the instructions in the original Croatia, you will have tremendous experiences. And that’s what I’m all about, is getting to that point where you can have a face to face like you and I are having with the spirit, because that is possible. And most people and they do path work, and they’re never really going to get that real experience.

You know what I’m saying? And the, the our goal system is very stripped down tools by comparison. But it has those other keys of breath control and body movements and things like that that will eventually lead you to that face to face. Oh my fucking God. There it is. Experience. And that’s what you really want. I mean, I would think anyway, you know, that’s what you want to get to

There’s a, there’s a practice. And if we look at traditional spiritualism where we do the classic mirror gazing technique and the practitioner begins to look at the mirror for a period of time extended into the, without, you know, how parallel with the witness referred to as acolyte. And we start seeing the spirits or the faces, and there’s this classic, you know, correlation between the psychic psychological development of the practitioner and some of the spirits that are coming through spontaneously.

Inside of this is the old classic, I’m the Exorcist in the midst of the exorcism. If I change the spirit that naturally attract themselves to me, also change. Do you find that there is a correlation at a similar level with Gothic working? In other words, the more attributes that I match of the entity. Is that going to help me come into rapport with the entity as I work with the entity in a path working like process is cultivating those components of necessary as part of a personal evolution.

Because there’s there’s almost like a, you know, the low magic, high magic approach. Right? The one of working the magic purely for the result and the other one working the magic purely for the evolution, so that I almost become the result as it as it is. Would you advise one or the other? And we do you see that there is a relationship in your own psychology versus who and what you’re actually able to connect with magically?

Or is that purely a basis of the technique?

Well, psychology is important, and I think it’s very useful in all that, but I definitely don’t think that, the spirits are, as Crowley said, parts of the human brain or anything like that. You know, he was messing around with that essay and people just took it, ran with it. You can read his later works. He definitely says, these are consciousnesses outside of our our brain.

My opinion is that the spirits are not reliant on us at all. If I’d never would have been born, as my dad would still be roaming around the universe doing its thing. And the spirits are, completely, you know, independent of my brain. That’s that’s how I feel about it. Okay.

So we’re kind of slowly starting to run out of time, and there’s a few more questions, if you don’t mind, that. I just want to sneak in while I still have you on here with me. Is that okay?

Go for it.

Okay. So firstly, you’ve got you’ve got some work in terms of relationship with the werewolf. And I believe you’re going to be heading towards a little bit of a project in relationship to, to the werewolf magic. Now, there’s, there’s a couple of pieces of books that are out there on this at the moment, and there’s mixed views on literacy.

Forgive my pronunciation. And the entire practice of werewolf magic. Could you give us your view on that subject matter as a whole and your approach to it?

Oh, well, that’s a big subject. Well, let me just say, for starters, that I haven’t transformed into a hairy beast and round the countryside eating farmers chickens, you know, and, have not done that, but I don’t, I do think that that is possible with a certain level of energy raise. And I have had experiences where it felt like to me that I had was growing hair all over my body, and the sensation seemed physical, although I know that it or at least I think that it was not physical.

And but, I don’t know how it would be hard to sort of bring the whole lore of the werewolf together. You know, it’s a lot of different things. You can find references on, On the werewolf going back as far as a thousand years and quotes on them, what people believe in it as a superstition.

And the church, condemning it, saying, you know, you need to confess if you if you have, believed in the superstition that a man could become a wolf and stuff like that. And going back as far as 1000 years, I would have to say that my personal opinion is that at least some people have accomplished it physically.

But like the witch burnings, there were obviously a lot of people that went to the stake and were completely innocent. And there’s there’s also different things. I mean, you can look at, the beast of Google, Don, if I’m pronouncing that French word right, and it killed over 100 people. So something was out there and it wasn’t an ordinary wolf.

It was definitely some sort of a ferocious creature. That. Yeah. You know, and I think that, there were at least some people that did know I, developed. If you look back in the traditional werewolf lore, it was not, a matter of someone being bitten by a werewolf. That’s just kind of something that Hollywood has taken as as it’s similar to the vampire, you know, even with the vampire, most of the, the way that someone became a vampire wasn’t necessarily from to come, but it was all kinds of different ways to become a vampire, such as even committing suicide.

Can make you become vampire, you know? But Hollywood kind of took that idea of that if you’re bitten by another werewolf, you become a werewolf. But that’s I really have found no evidence of that in the ancient lore. And it was a matter of three different processes, and one was a belt that you put on you, and another one was making a pact with the devil.

And then the third component was an ointment. And if we look at this ointment, it’s very fascinating because it appears in a lot of different areas, and you’ve probably heard of which is flying ointment and studying a little bit about that. And there was also what they called fairies ointment and lycanthropy ointment. The process of becoming a werewolf was very dependent upon this ointment.

And if you look at what the ointment was composed of, had, like, you know, opium and datura and hanban and wolfsbane and some of these really strong, psychedelics that were in your witch assignment. And people would go through a process of invoking the devil or the wolf spirit or the Lord of the forest, depending on what they called it.

And it’s near this ointment on themselves and put on your skin. Now, the components in the ointment would definitely make you believe that you had become, a werewolf. We might compare it to tripping on LSD or mushrooms in our modern times, you know? So there were definitely a lot of people that did that. And if you look at the the judges themselves who actually, you know, tried werewolf and and the werewolf trials, the werewolf trials were a small portion of the witch trials and, you know, that you can read their writings, and I’ve got some of that in my book, where they actually explain why they condemn these people for death

and the different aspects of the phenomenon. Some people believe that, when people would be in a trance, their spirits would possess the body of a wolf, a fiscal wolf that existed, and they would go around carrying on these different acts. And then some people believe that the devil put a sort of illusionary form over people so that it tricks their eyes.

As they said, the devil tricks the eyes of those who see the werewolf. That was another, way of it. But I do think, that there were at least a few people who actually did achieve it. And I mean, go ahead.

I think it’s it’s just, you know, again, like the subject matter, when somebody just listens to this from the outside initially and they haven’t done the research and haven’t been looked at like they. So because there was a point where the church took this very, very seriously, it was a, you know, executable crime, essentially. And, a lot of people look at these things and they just kind of like brush them off as beauty, superstition because it’s so far outside of, you know, reality for the typical, you know, individual.

Yet they were research cases. I remember there was one just in the area of hypnosis where they took where they were experimenting with the experiment with, remote hypnosis. And certain subjects were taking part of the experiment without knowing when the situation was going to happen. And the hypnotist would then be in a separate place. You go on the on the on the hypnotic journey, place himself in a very deep, profound trance, and then connected, almost remote, hypnotized the other individual.

The people then watching the other individual would then observe the person kind of becoming sleepy, going into trance, and then, going about and proceeding. And they followed the one individual, and he went down this little journey, this little walk, and halfway through it kind of seemed like it came to. And then he was back for a few for a half a minute, and then he went back into the trance.

And when they interviewed the hypnotist afterwards, the hypnotist said, you know, there’s a point that he put himself so deep that he lost consciousness. And he then kind of reemerged. And there is we know that the brain communicates across distances at a massive kind of level. So indirectly, there’s a hypnotic level of influence that’s happening between brains that are outside the normal, localized or sensory range of data, the effect that that has on consciousness since reality’s created inside of the brain brings us to almost like a tier, because we always speak about these labels of manifestation, the mental spiritual labels down to the astral, you know, down to almost like a psychological and down to

the physical being the final one. But I think the, the thing that is often forgotten is that the more the more we go in, the more we go into this path, the more of that energy we stop directing almost the flow of sexual energy to the world. It’s no longer my validation is no longer made from, you know, what car I drive, what person I’m worth that kind of stuff.

It now becomes internally validated and gets now moved into my craft and my magic. So that power, that resource, is now more available to make this more real. And it’s manifestations and we know we’ve got there’s so much evidence about the mind body relationship. You know, the more we convinced of who we are, what the world is, we start programing our biology towards that.

But then we look at we’re only expressing, I believe 2 or 3% of our DNA is potential. And the difference between us and a silverback gorilla, something like 2% of that 3%. So what other potential is literally still dormant inside of our DNA that we’re not even coming to the bridge? We’re still very much even as magicians that, you know, are literally the outside.

If you take the personal development movement and you take the occult movement, occult movements that that movement on steroids. So we’re trying to push the boundary of consciousness and reality to a whole new level, and many start to experience the stage where physical reality or the physical body almost gets overwritten for periods of time. I know there’s been times where I’ve worked with certain, of the go ethic spirits, where the manifestations was so physical.

At one point I thought, there’s something physically wrong with my brain. I need to go in for a brain scan. And I went in for a brain scan. There was nothing wrong with my brain. Everything was fine, but the effects were physically happening inside of my body to the point where people would look at me and they could see physical changes in my form, in my shape.

Energetically it could be felt. And I think people don’t realize how real this can get, how progressive it can get. But that can be scary for some. But it also opens up a range of possibilities that that in, in human potential or in the potential of consciousness, that we’re just scratching the surface of. And because we have systems like, you know, many of the right hand path religions that are so busy indoctrinating us against the possibilities of consciousness, this is not a field that enough people have experimented in, you know, or explored in.

What is your view? On on that. And the boundaries that we may need to let go of, of that conditioning in order to help us get to that next stage of our craft and of our magic.

Well, I do believe in reincarnation, but I think that not everybody is the same. I mean, some people just don’t seem to have that spark of consciousness. I mean, when I look at my brothers and sisters, I was in a family of five, and I’m the only one out of five who has taken up the magical path to do books at all in our local bookstore, and they’ve noticed that there’s this whole aisle here with all this new age and, you know, witchcraft.

So why didn’t they ever walk down that aisle and say, what is this? You know, let me look at this. Or what causes one person to say, let me give you a really what I feel like is a really important example. Okay. I have, kept a dream diary at certain points in my life extremely religiously. One of my books was 500 Real Dreams, which was where I recorded 500 of my dreams released, and I’ll send and work one day.

And there was this guy, and he was talking to someone else, a girl who was working in a restaurant. And, the girl said, she said, I was dreaming about blah, blah, blah last night, you know? And the guy said, I haven’t had a dream in a year where I might have said, I only had one dream this year.

And at that time I had had probably over 300 dreams in that year, because I was keeping my dream diary so religiously. There was a time when I had 26 dreams in one week. There was a time when I had six or maybe even seven dreams in a single night, because I was so dedicated to this practice. And I thought to myself, you know, what’s the difference between me?

Who’s had, say, 300 dreams this year and this guy who hasn’t had but maybe 1 or 2? You mean scientifically, just just from raw scientific? Well, you might say, well, because I’m seeking this out, I’m opening up different parts of my brain and I’m able to experience this and other people that never try to open their consciousness or carry out magical experiments, they just, the magical world just flies right in front of their face and they never know it’s there.

Or is there something, different? You know what makes a person, let’s say some people hear the music and some people feel the music, and I think that it’s the same way with magic. You know, some people just are able, I don’t know, I mean, I it’s not a racial thing. There’s magicians of every race and culture.

It just seems to be that some people just don’t. They don’t pick it up. They don’t they don’t see it, you know, or also, I wonder, why did asthma, they appear to me, not another person. Is it because I had past life experiences with them and something like that? When when you’re dealing with this, we’re talking about just the vastness of the world and consciousness and, you know, life after life and know reincarnation.

And we just don’t know these answers. But definitely there’s something different about me that has caused me to have magical experiences and to seek this stuff out. So I suppose all witches, there’s something different about. Yeah, yeah.

I think I think that’s kind of a very good place for us to close today’s session, because I think. Would you, would you kind of, you know, touched on there is so it’s so key if there’s people that can kind of dabble, you know, there’s people that dabble in the craft, they dabble in the practice. You know, they they want the quick spell, the quick fix.

And the truth of the matter is they’re not magic. They’re not they’re not witches. They’re not true occult to say they are people, which of all fairness and lightness are struggling with an emotional problem or financial or material problem, and they’re looking for a quick way out of it, a quick way out of pain and into pleasure. And that’s that’s it.

And then there are those of us that no matter what we do, we cannot walk away from the path. It’s just who we are. It’s the way we’re built, so to speak, whether that’s the way we’re bolted. A soul level, and we’re all bringing little items to contribute to this piece being a which, you know, I think people always had this mythology that it was it was in the bloodline or it was in the past lives.

It was you’re part of something. And maybe it is something that at some point in the past life, all of us got initiated into a certain coven or certain group where we made contact with a certain spirit or group. I’m not sure, but it’s definitely not. It’s not like you’re a natural expansion in terms of certain fields of research.

You’re either in this and you’re walking this path or you’re not. Not everyone can walk it through. Who was it? Curtis Joseph. That that did the The Black Book of Iron Man. When I had the conversation with him, you said it also quite nicely said, anybody can go to war, but not everyone is both for war.

Anyone can kind of dabble with a quick, you know, spell on it, but not everyone’s a witch. And you will kind of know that you were a witch simply because you cannot walk away from this part of your own nature. And I think when people can just learn from, one of the things that I hope that we aspire some people to do, people that are maybe listening to this now, is learning to trust yourself and learning to trust that part of your experience and do your own research to pioneer your own work.

You know, one of the reasons I respect you is simply because you’ve had you haven’t taken things just from a base level. You went and you took the green more as you went further than most people would ever bother looking. To get to the information, you went and bought all the tools, took the steps. You didn’t take the shortcuts, so to speak, and you experiment with what worked and what didn’t work until you found and developed.

You know, quite frankly, a system that works for you and is, you know, helped many others. You know, I know everyone that I’ve spoken to that utilized your system has seen progressive results, and that progressive results does not come from something that’s just intellectually based. It is something that comes from a result of experience and practice, you know.

So as we close up our session today, I want to thank you, you know, for your contribution to our community, to the occult world in general, and the research that you’re doing and the contribution in your books, and also how involved you are just in the forums and the community, just helping people get get the information, you know, that is needed to.

So just, you know, from me to you and I think from the entire, you know, listener base, you know, thank you so much. You know, for everything you’ve done that you continue to do, we look forward to the, you know, the up and coming five books, you know, in the series. And the pieces of work ahead. But as we close, is there any kind of like, a lost personal message that you might want to give to listeners, that are both on this path is in discovering it and are maybe a little bit further on this path, and maybe you’re feeling a bit disenchanted.

You know, maybe they’re not getting that breakthrough. Maybe they’re a little confused on on where to focus their energy. What would be a message that you would like to share with them? As a closing thought?

Well, I I’ll just say that, to get success in education, you’re going to have to have a series of conjugations that the words that you conjure, and then you’re going to have to have the three keys, the stillness of the mind through meditation and prayer and fasting. And, you know, well, the three keys are, meditation and celibacy and diet control.

Those three keys. If you combine those with the right words, you will experience what you need to experience. And I would say start with the basics. Read the old grimoires as much as you possibly can, and then work your way to the new material. If you want to see, experience. But I’d also like to say that I thank you personally because I’ve enjoyed this conversation.

It’s been fun, and I think that, I like your vibe, man. You got a good vibe. And I could see in your eyes that you are a magician. You have. And I’m not pulling your leg. It’s hard to get compliments out of me because I take the stuff. So serious that there’s very few people, and I’d say they got it.

You know, I laugh at most practitioners. And I think you’ve got it. And I appreciate that having being able to talk to you and enjoy this conversation. And I’d like to do it again sometime, if you like. So that’s about it for me, man, I had fun and I appreciate you.

Thank you very much. That means a lot. Very. It’s been an honor, and an absolute pleasure. I can I can definitely also say that, you know, just not communication, the energy. You know what I’ve seen inside of your energy field is also very legit. It’s a it’s a walk. It is a walk in the park to really just flow our conversation.

And I do hope that we get to have more of these conversations, because I do believe it’s it’s when people like us come together and we share our experience and, and knowledge, in a congruent way. And we, we bring that to the community. I don’t know who’s listening to this that needs to hear this, but I know someone is getting a benefit from that.

And it may just be a door, maybe an energetic thing, or maybe an idea that’s been released that helps them progress on that path. So, you know, in closing this, if you are listening, anyone who is listening, if you found benefit in this, please do message us. I’m going to make sure that all the links that you can get to our emails work is inside of the video links.

And I’ll make sure that the also on the post. There’s a lot of benefits still to come and still to be available right now. Thank you so much again for this. It’s been an absolute pleasure and honor and I look forward to having you back.

So thanks for having me. We’ll see you later. Have a good night.

Perfect. Thank you so much.

I’ve always felt a little different, a little uneasy between regular, a bit of a dream or a loss comes a little non ordinary. So I’d say I think I’ve always just been this way. My mother said I was special. My father thought I should be fair. But I knew that witchcraft coursed through my veins the first time I tasted the lips of the goddess inside the rain.

Yes, I’m a witch. It’s true. And sure, we are the ones who believe in the beauty of nature. Believe in the things signs absent divine cannot explain. Who instead of religion would have romance. And sure, you may think we have lost our way when in the world of predictable things, we have such unfamiliar things that we would like to say.

But maybe in a world so cold and alone, a little unfamiliar, is exactly what is needed to show us the way a family.

It’s Adam Nox here. Thanks for supporting this podcast. And you know these ideas. I really appreciate freethinkers, you know, like yourselves that are willing to challenge conventional norms and think for themselves and take on new challenges and look at new ideas. And as such, I want to say that if you haven’t yet, if you are looking at ways to improve your knowledge over the entire field and you’re looking at a, you know, regular feed of ideas and concepts to keep improving yourself, I’d like to invite you to sign up at The Cult of You.

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